First printed in Sojourner: The Women's Forum, Vol. 20, No. 10 (June, 1995). 42 Seaverns Ave., Jamaica Plain, MA 02130. (Annual subscriptions are $21 per year.) This interview is reprinted by permission, and may not be redistributed in any medium without express written permission from Sojourner.

Isa Leshko: Tell me about shooting The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls In Love. How were you able to complete the principal photography in only 21 days?

Maria Maggenti: We had an extraordinary pre-production time. Everything was planned to the T. My producer Dolly Hall was extraordinary and kept us to a twelve-hour work day with one hour for lunch. It was a very tight ship, and everyone pitched in. For a lot of people, myself included, this was their first feature. But we wanted to make this a professional film that we would hold to very high standards.

Having a majority female crew was fabulous because it resulted in fewer ego problems. Film is a very hierarchical way of working, which is one of the things that I actually appreciate about it. There is a director, and everybody has her position. But within each position, what you do is extremely important. It's not bullshit. You need to know how to do your work and how to do it well, because filmmaking is such a machine. If the director is not a dictatorial type of person, which I'm not, then it's a thrilling experience for everyone.

I ran into my dolly grip on the street last night, and I said, "Alice, I'm so excited to see you. The film's coming out in June." And she said, "I keep hearing about your film." And I said, "It's not my film, it's our film. We made it together!" I know that historically this not the approach that many filmmakers take. But for me, it is absolutely the way to go.

Isa: From what I understand, your actors and crew were volunteers.

Maria: Absolutely no one was paid for their work. All the locations were donated for free by gay men -- those were their homes. It was a labor of love. People were recruited on the merit of the script and because I told them that I needed them. I told people I had two things to offer them: what I thought would be a good film, and a lot of love. That's it, nothing else.

And it was a leap of faith for them because, at the time, we had no distributor. We had no idea that we were going to be able to go to Sundance. We had the dream of it, but we had no guarantees. So it was a process of great determination and focus on everyone's part.

It sounds so "female," and I am naturally skeptic about gendered analysis of things, but I have to say that making this film was a very relationship-oriented process. I had a great relationship with the actors and with the crew. And the crew and the cast got along. They would go out dancing together at night. We had a lot of fun together.

Isa: Was it difficult capturing a high school setting since the actresses were not high school age?

Maria: They were very gifted young actors. They were under a lot of pressure with an intense schedule, but they pulled through. Before shooting, I would bring them outside, and say, "You know what, I thought I had three pages of dialogue here, but I can't shoot it. I have to get rid of it, what should we do?" And they would work with me.

We spent so much time in rehearsal that they began to live as 17-year-olds again. They drew upon their own experiences in high school, which were really not that long ago. And they spent a lot of time hanging out with young gay men and lesbians, getting a sense of where they are today.

Isa: The love scenes from the film were beautiful and steamy. Were they difficult to shoot?

Maria: The love scenes actually did not turn out exactly as I had wanted them to look, since we had to shoot some additional footage at another location. That is why we had to shoot everything very close. In the end, that turned out to be very beautiful. But I admit that I was terrified that it wouldn't look good.

The girls were really nervous about the love scenes at first. But I told them, "Trust me, it will be nothing like real sex. You think it sounds really sexy. But, I'm going to be telling you what to do every second." Sure enough, we filmed the scenes without sound. That enabled me to say stuff in the background like, "Kiss her ear. Now move to the other side, put your hands across her back, roll your legs over." It was hardly a sexy experience.

But the two actors had such extraordinary chemistry that by the time we filmed the love scenes, they were having a great time. I would yell, "Cut! Cut!" But, they just kept on smooching. [She giggles.] They were stars, and they were naked, and they were beautiful.

Isa: At the end of the film, I was left with a nagging curiosity of what happens next with Randy and Evie.

Maria: I leave us in a very ambiguous place. I pull away from Randy and Evie in that last dolly shot for a couple of reasons. This film is through the lens of someone who has already been through it, and who is now 31 years old. I have a certain kind of nostalgia and wistfulness looking back on that experience. And I also know that even though the characters have told each other they will love each other forever, that is probably not what will happen. But, that is not a bad thing either. So I end the film by pulling away from the two main characters. It was my way of saying that I knew they will be together for a while and then they will move on with their lives.

Isa: How autobiographical was the film? And were you Evie or Randy?

Maria: The story was very autobiographical, except that my mother did not walk in on us, and we did not go to a motel. My mother walked in on us in a more figurative way. The film is very personal and true. That's why at the end of the credits I dedicate the film: "To my first girlfriend, may our relationship rest in peace."

I was definitely Evie. My class background, my relationship with my mother, all that was very autobiographical. The car, however, belonged to my producer. My girlfriend was very much Randy. She was more of a rock star, though -- in her mind at least.

Isa: Was it difficult filming something so personal?

Maria: No. I have many years of distance from that experience. And I got so wrapped up in the actual production that I didn't realize what was happening to me creatively and emotionally until afterwards. When you're shooting, you're never in sequence, and there are a thousand things you're thinking about, and there are so many people on the set. It is such an all encompassing kind of experience.

It became more difficult when I had all the footage and worked with the editor. That's when the film started to emerge as a story, and I thought, "Gasp! It's so tender and sweet! AHHHHH!!!! How did that happen?!?"

Isa: What impact do you think the film will have on queer youth?

Maria: My characters have it a lot better than most young gay people today. Randy is very out and fine. And my motivation in doing that was to honor those kids for whom that is a reality -- and there are kids who are like that. I also wanted to inspire kids for whom that is not possible yet. To let them know that it can be possible.

A movie doesn't change people's lives. But it is part of a cultural landscape that hopefully moves a community forward. And if young people can see the film and think, "Wow! I'm okay," then that's an important accomplishment.

Gay kids have it rough, but you know what? They have it a hell of lot better than kids did 10 years ago. And kids 10 years ago from now will have it even better. The more people are out, and the more acceptance and understanding there is of the multiplicity of human sexual experiences over a lifetime, the more people will feel comfortable with who they are.

Isa: I thought Randy's relationship with her aunt provided an interesting take on age differences in the lesbian community. What were you trying to say with their relationship?

Maria: Certainly some of the differences between the two lies in the fear the aunt has about what it means for her niece to come out. In gay life, all you need is five years to be of a different generation. Where I was when I came out is very different from where kids are now. I went to women's bookstores; I didn't go to lesbian and gay bookstores. I went to women's marches; I didn't march in queer marches. I wanted to get that cultural shift across to viewers.

I know from friends of mine who have grown up with lesbian parents that there is a tension between the adult figure and child over how to define what gay is. This tension is basically growing pains. Everyone chafes against their authority figure -- regardless of who she or he might be. So we see Randy telling her Aunt, "I don't want to be like you. I've got my own way of being." And her Aunt replying, "Be careful."

Isa: This film was particularly striking to me because it opened with two women kissing. That was rather different from Claire of the Moon, for example, in which we all had to wait all the way until the end to see two women touch each other. Was this opening intentional? What did you want it to accomplish?

Maria: I'm pleased that you noted that, because very few people have. And yet, my specific desire was to open the film with two girls kissing. I wanted that more than I wanted anything.

The script was originally called Skyville, and it took Randy and Evie from the middle of their relationship till its end. That version opened with Randy and Evie making out in bed, until Evie's mother comes home and Randy jumps out the window.

Long story short, I ended up re-writing Skyville in 8 days into The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love, which became the final script for the film. With the new script which is set before they meet, I was left with wondering how I could still open the film with two women making out. That's how the character Wendy emerged. Randy has this women whom she just makes out with -- that's all Wendy does.

In the beginning of that opening shot, you don't really know what's going on. At first you think this very femmy woman is making out with either a boy or guy. It's only when Randy turns around and you hear her voice that you think, "That's a young girl!" That was very deliberate on my part. I wanted to subvert people's ideas on who makes out in bathrooms, and who is legitimately able to kiss each other.

Isa: What kind of an impact do you think this film will have on lesbian filmmaking?

Maria: Perhaps individual filmmakers will gain a sense of what they want to do from looking at this kind of an effort: a low budget independent film. But, ultimately what will effect lesbian films is how well this film does in the box office. If the film does well, that gives many more chances to other filmmakers. If the film does not do well, it will cut down on those possibilities, which is unfortunate. That is one reason why I hope the film is seen by a lot of people and has a good theatrical run. Because it's not about me, but about the whole line of young filmmakers who want to do independent work -- not just lesbian work, but independent work.

Isa: Who did you have in mind as your audience when you made the film?

Maria: I sort of had two audiences in mind. My dyke audience, whom I wanted to watch the film and say, "I believe that, those details are right." Because as a dyke, you're in bad shape if other dykes are going to write you off. But I also wanted the people who had never met a dyke before to be able to relate to the film and say, "I remember that anxiety of holding hands." For a boy and girl to hold hands is different from two girls holding hands, in terms of the consequences. But the feeling while holding hands is similar. There are some transcendental moments such as being a teenager or falling for someone.

Isa: What are your future film projects?

Maria: I have a script that I'm working on that is called, "Us, Them, and Me," which is a Manhattan-based sex comedy. It's not a romantic comedy in the same way this little film is. Everyone is over 30. And it also deals with the multiplicity of sexual experience and sexual identity. There is no one term that I would be able to give about anyone's identity in the film. I'm trying to change the terms of that debate. I'm very interested in dealing with that in my work.

Isa: Now I'm curious. How do you identify yourself?

Maria: I don't identify as anything anymore. I identify as Maria. It's interesting because I used to be able to say I was a lesbian, and that wrapped it all up. I don't find it that easy for me anymore. I have a great respect for the omnisexual possibilities that people have, including myself. So I respect that by not giving myself a label.

Isa: Is that why you were reluctant to call The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls In Love a lesbian film?

Maria: I had a very specific reason for not wanting to call it a lesbian film. We still live in a political moment when that label can really marginalize material. I would rather emphasize that the film was made by lesbians and that it could not have been accomplished without the cash, blood, sweat, and tears that came from the lesbian and gay community. And that it is based upon my experience as a young lesbian. But I resist calling it a lesbian film because I think it is more important to define the film as an independent film that comes from an independent voice.

Isa: Have you gotten the obligatory noxious questions from the mainstream press about lesbian chic?

Maria: I get all those questions. And it's hard to discuss the issue with the straight press because they are so misinformed already. I usually tell them that we have to look less at Hollywood and more at the moment that we are in politically.

Filmmakers want to create work that's about their own lives and be unashamed. They want to be empowered and have a sense of enfranchisement. That's what's interesting -- not whether Hollywood decides to put a couple of dykes in the background or foreground of a movie. I don't know anything about that because this work comes from me, from my group of friends, and from Dolly [Hall] -- not from Hollywood.

Isa: What are the advantages of being an independent filmmaker?

Maria: It will always hard to make an independent film. And because it is so hard, there will always be people who want to do it. Because it is only in making an independent film that you have total creative control. You do not have it under any other circumstances. You just don't. I don't care how many dykes they let you put in your film. They're going to tell you what they have to wear, what their hair is supposed to look like, what color they are, and what kind of sex they have. Independent filmmaking exists because independent-minded filmmakers exist. And that will happen across the board no matter what topic they deal with.

I would never want to be anything other than an independent filmmaker. After Sundance, there was an L.A. agent studio shark-feeding fest. They all wanted me, and I wouldn't have it. I just wasn't interested. Making a first feature film is the equivalent to writing the "Great American Novel" 40 years ago. Because that is the time we live in -- a media-saturated age.

Quite frankly, I wasn't interested in fame or a lot of money. I was very interested in this story. And this story was very interested in me. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it. That approach is strangely antithetical to the popular notion of what filmmaking is all about. But it's common in the independent filmmaking community. I've got a cheap apartment in Manhattan, and I can hold out for a long time.

Isa: What would you recommend to independent filmmakers starting out?

Maria: Don't take no for an answer. Learn the craft of filmmaking and do not scrimp on it. I cannot stand to see a movie when someone doesn't know how to use the camera. Hold yourself to very high standards, and don't give up. It's all about not giving up.

Once people found out that we were actually filming this movie on such little amount of money and still had a great set, word got out. They heard that I was a good director, and that everyone was being treated well; all that stuff matters. The best piece of advice I could give to a young filmmaker is that every step counts. You never want to treat anyone badly along the way.

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